Future subs out position a nuclear sub, ha, ha!!!

Robert Bond   Director   Citizens for Defence



Virginia sub in dry dock

Virginia sub in dry dock

Admiral Moffitt says “If we find our (diesel electric submarines) up against a (nuclear submarine) we defeat it by having our submarine in the right place,” (Subs need to be out there doing the damage, Brendan Nicholson, 25/5).

Admiral, we do not believe you. Prove it by challenging the US to supply a Virginia class nuclear attack submarine to go head to head with 5 Collins-class submarines in the mid Pacific Ocean.

This armchair admiral suggests having a large noisy warship travel in an anti submarine random zigzag pattern at 25 knots with the Virginia sub defending the ship and the Collins subs attacking the ship. All hits should be recorded and the whole process observed by independent observers instructed to report to the Australian people.

The politicians responsible for our defence force have never had 5 submarines available for duty at the one time in the last decade and they should declare how many sea worthy submarines they have available at present fit to oppose a Virginia class submarine.

Even if only 1, 2, or 3 subs are available the politicians should demonstrate to the Australian people that Admiral Moffitt’s statement is correct.

Considering the Australian diesel electric submarines can only reach a speed of 21 knots for 60 kilometers compared with a nuclear submarine that has a speed of 32 Knots for thousands of kilometers it behoves the government and opposition to clearly show how their diesel electric submarine can out position a nuclear submarine. It is an unbelievable suggestion.

It is a sad state of affairs when one cannot trust the judgment of politicians on defence issues anymore, especially when the whole future submarine project will cost over $50 billion which is 2 years of our paltry defence budget.

As far as “bang for the buck” goes it will be an absolute disaster.

One thought on “Future subs out position a nuclear sub, ha, ha!!!

  1. Modern diesel electric submarines are quieter than nuclear powered subs. That’s a huge advantage. Collins-class submarines were never up to date. Here you can read what one u-boat can do: http://seefahrer.blog.de/2013/04/24/manoevertagebuch-westlant-deployment-u-32-15-20-15785812/ (Microsoft Translater on top right)
    Music for diesel submarines;-) http://seefahrer.blog.de/2013/04/11/manoevertagebuch-westlant-deployment-07-08-15746059/

    Some thoughts about what Admiral Moffitt said: “That also means the fin has to be above the control room. A periscope fitted with modern electrico-optical sensors would not need to penetrate the pressure hull and the “view” would be transmitted to the control room, which could be placed anywhere on the boat.” The watch will always run through the whole boat to reach lockout on the fin from control room? There is more than one reason why the fin is right above the control room.

    The Admiral is also not up to date: “While the smaller European submarines, which were considered an option until this month, could operate comfortably for just three weeks to a month, the Collins has been at sea for two months or more at a time” The smaller European boats can operate submerged for up to one month. Total endurance is about 12 weeks.

    Than the Admiral mentions “Late last year HMAS Farncombe made a 20,000 nautical mile round trip that included exercises off Hawaii.” Is this so exceptional? How operational was HMAS Farncombe at the end of that trip? Round trip from ASC dock back to ASC dock?
    Next entry is about reliability: http://seefahrer.blog.de/2013/05/24/manoevertagebuch-westlant-deployment-15-16-05-u-16052304/
    U 32 is on duty since December 2011. Traveled distance just during this exercise since now nearly 10.000 nm and 75 % thereof submerged. Now crew is changed. German Navy has 8 crews for 6 u-boats. 2 crews for each boat operational. Size of crew is just 27 men. For a Virginia-class submarine it’s 5 times more. Just think about the pay. With 16 crews (two crews for each operational submarine) for a Type 212 submarine you can man just 3 Virginia-class submarines. Even a fast submarine can’t be at two locations at once. A fast submarine is something else – very noisy.

    The price for the future Australian submarine is just lunatic – $40 billions! Israel bought 3 Dolphin class submarines with AIP for just $2 billions (price for latest boat is about $1 billion but that includes special weapons Australia doesn’t wants and Israel doesn’t talk about). About $2 billion is the price for sonar replacement on Collins-class: http://www.asiapacificdefencereporter.com/articles/304/Collins-Class-upgrades-a-mixed-scorecard – for that price Australia could have 3 operational submarines with AIP and systems according to the latest standard.

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